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	<title>Comments on: An unnecessary defense of neuroimaging (comment on Paul Bloom)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/</link>
	<description>of brains and their minds</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MER</title>
		<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>MER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.smallgraymatters.com/?p=3#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Someone once told me that you can't be a true interdisciplinary scientist without first being an expert in at least one of the incorporated disciplines. That bit of advice has haunted me throughout my endeavor to become a good cognitive neuroscientist-- I envy the purists, be they RT fanatics or molecular neurobiologists.

I think one of the main problems with fMRI right now, as you've alluded to, is that people rush off to try out this new and exciting method before seriously considering whether or not the same question could be answered with a carefully designed (and much less expensive) behavioral study. It's these studies, which employ the method without paying deference to its unique capabilities, that discredit the field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone once told me that you can&#8217;t be a true interdisciplinary scientist without first being an expert in at least one of the incorporated disciplines. That bit of advice has haunted me throughout my endeavor to become a good cognitive neuroscientist&#8211; I envy the purists, be they RT fanatics or molecular neurobiologists.</p>
<p>I think one of the main problems with fMRI right now, as you&#8217;ve alluded to, is that people rush off to try out this new and exciting method before seriously considering whether or not the same question could be answered with a carefully designed (and much less expensive) behavioral study. It&#8217;s these studies, which employ the method without paying deference to its unique capabilities, that discredit the field.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Chatham</title>
		<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Chatham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.smallgraymatters.com/?p=3#comment-25</guid>
		<description>One of the major criticisms of fMRI research that I continually hear are more methodological in nature - for example, control and baseline conditions are notoriously bad in fMRI research from the early 90s.  It is more common than one would expect to still see incorrect baselines used, even in big name journals like Nature and Science.

In fact, these methodological issues of fMRI completely overshadow the significant lingering questions about some of the data preprocessing that goes on "in the black box."  How many cog neuroscientists can claim to understand the nature of that extensive preprocessing before you get a voxelized image?  I have heard that at least one person who was involved in developing the math inside those "black boxes" is now on a crusade to make people aware of his math's limitations - presumably because people have been making claims that rely on possibly artifactual data.  (A friend of mine pursued her PhD in the lab in question, and actually dropped out 3 years in, supposedly because of the stress caused by being a "bad cop" 24/7).

I'll end with a relevant quote from Dave Weich:

"At whatever level of science you are working, the level just beneath you seems a little more scientific. Biologists kind of envy biochemists who kind of envy chemists who kind of envy physicists. Everybody wants to wear a slightly whiter coat."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the major criticisms of fMRI research that I continually hear are more methodological in nature - for example, control and baseline conditions are notoriously bad in fMRI research from the early 90s.  It is more common than one would expect to still see incorrect baselines used, even in big name journals like Nature and Science.</p>
<p>In fact, these methodological issues of fMRI completely overshadow the significant lingering questions about some of the data preprocessing that goes on &#8220;in the black box.&#8221;  How many cog neuroscientists can claim to understand the nature of that extensive preprocessing before you get a voxelized image?  I have heard that at least one person who was involved in developing the math inside those &#8220;black boxes&#8221; is now on a crusade to make people aware of his math&#8217;s limitations - presumably because people have been making claims that rely on possibly artifactual data.  (A friend of mine pursued her PhD in the lab in question, and actually dropped out 3 years in, supposedly because of the stress caused by being a &#8220;bad cop&#8221; 24/7).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll end with a relevant quote from Dave Weich:</p>
<p>&#8220;At whatever level of science you are working, the level just beneath you seems a little more scientific. Biologists kind of envy biochemists who kind of envy chemists who kind of envy physicists. Everybody wants to wear a slightly whiter coat.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Neuromarketing</title>
		<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Neuromarketing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jul 2006 14:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.smallgraymatters.com/?p=3#comment-15</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;fMRI Studies Overrated?...&lt;/strong&gt;

	A provocative article in Seed by Yale&#8217;s Paul Bloom, Seduced by the Flickering Lights of the Brain, suggests that scientists are getting carried away with their reliance on fMRI studies.
&#8230;This is more than just phrenology. But it is not so ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>fMRI Studies Overrated?&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>	A provocative article in Seed by Yale&#8217;s Paul Bloom, Seduced by the Flickering Lights of the Brain, suggests that scientists are getting carried away with their reliance on fMRI studies.<br />
&#8230;This is more than just phrenology. But it is not so &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: small and gray</title>
		<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>small and gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.smallgraymatters.com/?p=3#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Katherine, thanks for the link. I’ll take a look tomorrow–for some reason my library’s proxy server doesn’t allow access to JCogNeuro off-campus.

VTW, I agree completely. Hindsight is always 20/20, but when the first (now 'light bright') studies came out, I think most people were pretty stunned to see the degree to which cognitive operations could be localized. And as you say, we probably still don't have enough of them; there's such a strong push to do something new with every study that it's hard to get a good sense of what the basics are in a lot of cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katherine, thanks for the link. I’ll take a look tomorrow–for some reason my library’s proxy server doesn’t allow access to JCogNeuro off-campus.</p>
<p>VTW, I agree completely. Hindsight is always 20/20, but when the first (now &#8216;light bright&#8217;) studies came out, I think most people were pretty stunned to see the degree to which cognitive operations could be localized. And as you say, we probably still don&#8217;t have enough of them; there&#8217;s such a strong push to do something new with every study that it&#8217;s hard to get a good sense of what the basics are in a lot of cases.</p>
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		<title>By: VTW</title>
		<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>VTW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.smallgraymatters.com/?p=3#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Excellent post! I've also been disconcerted by the negative view of fMRI a lot of neuroscience blogs are taking. There's certainly a fair amount of poorly conducted fMRI studies out there, but that's true of every science. 

   I'm especially concerned with the criticism, both from within and outside the field, that classic brain mapping studies are recieving. 
The derogatory term "light bright imaging" comes to mind. While those types of studies do lack sophistication, in a science so young as this I believe they are essential. After all, pretty much every cog neuro experiment these days is building on the brain mapping studies of the mid 90s, back when it was enough to just get people to wiggle their fingers in the scanner.  Take the Superior Temporal Sulcus for instance, we wouldn't know that it was involved in the perception of biological motion if someone hadn't done the very trite study having people passively view point light displays and such.  To think that after 8 years we've come so far that we no longer need to do simple brain mapping studies, is absurd. If anything I think we need to redo them as a lot of the early fMRI work had power issues (SNR problems, outdated registration techniques, small number of subjects, etc.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post! I&#8217;ve also been disconcerted by the negative view of fMRI a lot of neuroscience blogs are taking. There&#8217;s certainly a fair amount of poorly conducted fMRI studies out there, but that&#8217;s true of every science. </p>
<p>   I&#8217;m especially concerned with the criticism, both from within and outside the field, that classic brain mapping studies are recieving.<br />
The derogatory term &#8220;light bright imaging&#8221; comes to mind. While those types of studies do lack sophistication, in a science so young as this I believe they are essential. After all, pretty much every cog neuro experiment these days is building on the brain mapping studies of the mid 90s, back when it was enough to just get people to wiggle their fingers in the scanner.  Take the Superior Temporal Sulcus for instance, we wouldn&#8217;t know that it was involved in the perception of biological motion if someone hadn&#8217;t done the very trite study having people passively view point light displays and such.  To think that after 8 years we&#8217;ve come so far that we no longer need to do simple brain mapping studies, is absurd. If anything I think we need to redo them as a lot of the early fMRI work had power issues (SNR problems, outdated registration techniques, small number of subjects, etc.).</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.smallgraymatters.com/2006/06/27/in-unnecessary-defense-of-neuroimaging-a-comment-on-paul-bloom/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.smallgraymatters.com/?p=3#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Here is a link to the abstract of a paper on fMRI vs. lesion methods that is of interest to this topic: http://jocn.mitpress.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/6/850

I use fMRI in my own research and I still think it's overrated and abused as a method (both in its use and in the interpretation of resulting studies.) But, like you said in your defense of neuroimaging, it offers different information from other methods. For that reason, I will continue to use it in my research!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a link to the abstract of a paper on fMRI vs. lesion methods that is of interest to this topic: <a href="http://jocn.mitpress.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/6/850" rel="nofollow">http://jocn.mitpress.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/6/850</a></p>
<p>I use fMRI in my own research and I still think it&#8217;s overrated and abused as a method (both in its use and in the interpretation of resulting studies.) But, like you said in your defense of neuroimaging, it offers different information from other methods. For that reason, I will continue to use it in my research!</p>
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